Is it normal for Quarter machines to underpay?
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:59 pmThe purpose of this topic is to educate and pass on information to the new hobbyist. I’m not an expert; I’m just a hobbyist like you that enjoys antique slots.
I hope my research can help you understand this problem and help you with your restoration project. My facts are based on a $.25 War Eagle slot machine (Mills Silent Jackpot Bell) and it could vary upon your particular model and year. I welcome any facts or corrections to my data below.
I will start by saying that there is nothing wrong with your quarter slot machine if it pays out 1, 2 or 3 coins under compare to the payout card amounts. The issue relates to the thickness of the payout slides and the thickness of the quarters from the 30s when the machines were designed. Current uncirculated clad quarters are 31.77% thicker; circulated clad 26.05% thicker and pre 1964 circulated Washington quarters are 17.82% thicker than the quarters used in the 1930s.
For several months I had been having problems with an incorrect payout amounts with a 1931 War Eagle slot machine I restored. The machine paid 3 quarters versus 4 quarters, 10 versus 12 and 13 versus 16 quarters compared to the payout card. My first reaction was that the machine had the incorrect payout card. I reviewed the pictures I took and verified that the payout card I replaced with was correct. Second option could be that the payout slides were incorrectly grouped. The pictures confirmed the slides were correctly sequenced. What could the problem be? I searched online and the only reference was that the thicknesses of modern clad coins were larger than the older coins when these quarter machines were designed. How much of the thickness was never explained in any article I read online.
These are the three questions I have in relations to the thickness of the quarter machines. How much of a difference is in the current modern coins? What series or date were the machines designed for? And what are the ratios of variances compare to current clads quarters? I searched Wikipedia, The Red Book, PGCG and NGC (coin certification companies) and none of these addressed the thickness of each coin series. The information is available for the weight, composition and diameter, but no thickness for each particular series is reported for the Barber/Liberty Head, the Standing Liberty, the Pre 1964 Washington and the current clad quarters.
1.) How much of a difference is in the current modern coins? In this question, I wanted to discover the thickness variance for each series. To do this, I measured the thickness of groups of 12 or 13 coins using a digital caliper to determine the high and low of thickness and the average thickness of each series. After measuring the thicknesses of 51 coins the results in inches are reported below;
See test results below.
Facts: The War Eagle (“Mills Silent Jackpot Bell”) was designed in January 1931 per page 87, “Lemons, Cherries and Bell-Fruit-Gum” by Richard M. Bueschel. During this period the War Eagle slot machine was designed with the following three coin series in circulation; Liberty Seated, Barber/Liberty Head and Standing Liberty. The Liberty Seated quarters were minted until 1891, Barber/Liberty Head quarters until 1916 and Standing Liberty until 1930. No quarters were minted in 1931 until the Washington quarters which started in 1932.
2.) What series or dates were the machine designed for? It is simple to say that the quarter slot machines was designed for all pre 1931 silver coins and all future quarters designs will not matter or affect the payout of the machines. It’s not that simple and it does matter, because future designs did affect the payouts only in quarter machines. In 1932 the US Mint finally standardized the thickness of the US quarters to 0.0715 inches. The average thicknesses of circulated coins are as follows: the Barber/Liberty Head averaged 0.0522 inches, 0.0545 inches for 12 Standing Liberty quarters, 0.0638 inches for pre 1964 Washington and .0681 inches for current clad quarters. In other coin denominations the US mint has been consistent and has not had an impact in the pennies, nickels and half slots.
3.) And what are the ratios of variances compare to current clads quarters? I used the highest of the two averages between Barber Head and Standing Liberty quarters to compare to a uncirculated quarter to determine the actual thickness increase. In the test, the Standing Liberty quarter thickness of 0.0545 provided a reasonable measurement due to the fact that most Liberty Head quarters were to worn to analyze. The new standardize size of 0.0715 for an uncirculated quarter had increased the thickness by 31.19% from the coins in the 1930s. Circulated coins size increase differed between 17.82% to 26.05% percentages based on my test samples. The ratios are; for every 3.3 uncirculated clad (Unc.) quarters is equivalent to 4 pre 1930 quarters or 10 Unc. quarters to 12 pre 1930 quarters or 13 Unc. quarters to 16 pre 1930s quarters.
It’s a normal occurrence then that the 1930’s quarters slots may payouts under by one, two or three coins due to increase in thickness by 31.77% of modern uncirculated coins. Period correct payout slides may underpay 1 to 3 coins when modern uncirculated clad coins are used. In my option, the under payout is a confirmation that you have an original and period correct payout slides in your machine, but it does not guarantee that the quarter slot machine is all original. The best advice when buying a quarter slot machine is to purchase it from a reputable dealer. Before you spend thousands of dollars in a machine please buy a book and educate yourself.
Alex M.
I hope my research can help you understand this problem and help you with your restoration project. My facts are based on a $.25 War Eagle slot machine (Mills Silent Jackpot Bell) and it could vary upon your particular model and year. I welcome any facts or corrections to my data below.
I will start by saying that there is nothing wrong with your quarter slot machine if it pays out 1, 2 or 3 coins under compare to the payout card amounts. The issue relates to the thickness of the payout slides and the thickness of the quarters from the 30s when the machines were designed. Current uncirculated clad quarters are 31.77% thicker; circulated clad 26.05% thicker and pre 1964 circulated Washington quarters are 17.82% thicker than the quarters used in the 1930s.
For several months I had been having problems with an incorrect payout amounts with a 1931 War Eagle slot machine I restored. The machine paid 3 quarters versus 4 quarters, 10 versus 12 and 13 versus 16 quarters compared to the payout card. My first reaction was that the machine had the incorrect payout card. I reviewed the pictures I took and verified that the payout card I replaced with was correct. Second option could be that the payout slides were incorrectly grouped. The pictures confirmed the slides were correctly sequenced. What could the problem be? I searched online and the only reference was that the thicknesses of modern clad coins were larger than the older coins when these quarter machines were designed. How much of the thickness was never explained in any article I read online.
These are the three questions I have in relations to the thickness of the quarter machines. How much of a difference is in the current modern coins? What series or date were the machines designed for? And what are the ratios of variances compare to current clads quarters? I searched Wikipedia, The Red Book, PGCG and NGC (coin certification companies) and none of these addressed the thickness of each coin series. The information is available for the weight, composition and diameter, but no thickness for each particular series is reported for the Barber/Liberty Head, the Standing Liberty, the Pre 1964 Washington and the current clad quarters.
1.) How much of a difference is in the current modern coins? In this question, I wanted to discover the thickness variance for each series. To do this, I measured the thickness of groups of 12 or 13 coins using a digital caliper to determine the high and low of thickness and the average thickness of each series. After measuring the thicknesses of 51 coins the results in inches are reported below;
See test results below.
Facts: The War Eagle (“Mills Silent Jackpot Bell”) was designed in January 1931 per page 87, “Lemons, Cherries and Bell-Fruit-Gum” by Richard M. Bueschel. During this period the War Eagle slot machine was designed with the following three coin series in circulation; Liberty Seated, Barber/Liberty Head and Standing Liberty. The Liberty Seated quarters were minted until 1891, Barber/Liberty Head quarters until 1916 and Standing Liberty until 1930. No quarters were minted in 1931 until the Washington quarters which started in 1932.
2.) What series or dates were the machine designed for? It is simple to say that the quarter slot machines was designed for all pre 1931 silver coins and all future quarters designs will not matter or affect the payout of the machines. It’s not that simple and it does matter, because future designs did affect the payouts only in quarter machines. In 1932 the US Mint finally standardized the thickness of the US quarters to 0.0715 inches. The average thicknesses of circulated coins are as follows: the Barber/Liberty Head averaged 0.0522 inches, 0.0545 inches for 12 Standing Liberty quarters, 0.0638 inches for pre 1964 Washington and .0681 inches for current clad quarters. In other coin denominations the US mint has been consistent and has not had an impact in the pennies, nickels and half slots.
3.) And what are the ratios of variances compare to current clads quarters? I used the highest of the two averages between Barber Head and Standing Liberty quarters to compare to a uncirculated quarter to determine the actual thickness increase. In the test, the Standing Liberty quarter thickness of 0.0545 provided a reasonable measurement due to the fact that most Liberty Head quarters were to worn to analyze. The new standardize size of 0.0715 for an uncirculated quarter had increased the thickness by 31.19% from the coins in the 1930s. Circulated coins size increase differed between 17.82% to 26.05% percentages based on my test samples. The ratios are; for every 3.3 uncirculated clad (Unc.) quarters is equivalent to 4 pre 1930 quarters or 10 Unc. quarters to 12 pre 1930 quarters or 13 Unc. quarters to 16 pre 1930s quarters.
It’s a normal occurrence then that the 1930’s quarters slots may payouts under by one, two or three coins due to increase in thickness by 31.77% of modern uncirculated coins. Period correct payout slides may underpay 1 to 3 coins when modern uncirculated clad coins are used. In my option, the under payout is a confirmation that you have an original and period correct payout slides in your machine, but it does not guarantee that the quarter slot machine is all original. The best advice when buying a quarter slot machine is to purchase it from a reputable dealer. Before you spend thousands of dollars in a machine please buy a book and educate yourself.
Alex M.