Dewey and Owl

[oldslotman]

Any thoughts on these?? Not at all familiar with floor machines

[SLOT DYNASTY]

Just found this old post, and see that no one had responded. You are asking about "our thoughts" on them.
Thoughts about what? Are you planning on a purchase of one or both? I know Victorian Uprights pretty well,
as they were my main interest, when I started in this hobby. One of the first three machines that I ever
restored, was a Caille "Eclipse", and have been studying the history of Uprights ever since. There was a
multitude of different models, by most top manufacturers, and there are still some that were shown in
brochures and fliers, that have never surfaced. There are also a few that have shown up, that could never
be found in advertising. One for-instance many years ago, was a Mills "Turtle", that belonged to a longtime
friend. Only problem was, that it was not complete. Someone had taken out the original mechanism, and
replaced it with a baseball themed game. We were going to restore it, by using a mechanism and wheel,
from a similar configured machine, but never pursued the venture . It would have been quite challange, as
there was no other example to copy from. The only thing that ever showed up, was a very small ad, with a
picture of the machine, that Dick Bueschel turned up many years ago.
Anyway, in regards to the two pictures you sent above, they are two of the most common of all Uprights,
and were produced over a longer period than most other models. The first is a Mills "Dewey", and had many
cabinet and trim changes over the years. This one is an earlier, more common cabinet style, and appears to
have been restored at some point. These tend to sell in the $18,000 to $23,000 range, depending on condition.
The Mills "Owl" is THE most common of all, and is about the lowest priced Upright there is. They sell in the
$8,000 to $16,000 range. The "Owl" had the most cabinet & trim changes of any Upright. The earliest models
were the most ornate, and the later they got, the more 'plain-jane' they were. I restored one for a customer,
many years ago, that was SO PLAIN, that the cabinet had hardly any paneling, and all castings were smooth,
with NO gingerbread, and to top it all off, most all castings were mounted with wood screws from the outside,
not with the traditional machine screws from the inside. It had to be the last version that Mills ever made. It
didn't look as bad as when it was found, after I worked my magic on it, but it still looked 'BLAH'. The one in
your pix, also looks to have been restored, but that color wheel looks to be very faded, or it's a bad cardboard
repro, which I have seen some in the past.
The most important thing about 'handing over your hard-earned green' for any Victorian Upright, is to check it
over thoroughly, in person, if you want a machine that is totally original & correct, whether it's restored or not.
There are literally hundreds of Uprights that I have seen 'hamberger'd' over the years, that have had cabinet
repairs done half-assed, and many castings have been replaced with brass & aluminum. There are only a couple
of Uprights that had any brass exterior castings. All others were cast iron. Many of the color wheels have suffered
abuse over the years, and have been touched up, or repainted sloppily. There are a few wheels that have been
reproduced in high quality examples, and are exactly like the originals. But for all the others, they have to be in
very good to excellent condition, otherwise it hurts the price greatly. There have also been many Uprights, that
have been 'Over-Restored'. Meaning, case finishes, that are so shiny, you can comb your hair in the panels. Some
have even had the castings re-plated in chrome, instead of nickel. These are not the caliber of machines that
should be purchased from pictures on ebay, or anywhere, unless you can trust that the seller has a reputation of
being straight-up and trustworthy, and can guarantee that the machine is original and correct in every way.

[oldslotman]

Thanks, these were being sold at an auction but I was unable to make the auction. Thanks for the information on the machines.

[clubconsoles]

Hi Slot Dynasty.
Great Post, you obviously know your stuff.
I would like your honest opinion on my pictures
After 20 years of slot collecting, I bought my first upright a few months back and I am very pleased with it.
Having said that, I have much to learn as there are none in the UK that i have seen, so nothing to compare it with!
I paid the low end of your price range and a magnet sticks to all the castings. They have also been correctly re plated in Watts Nickel.
I am told It was a Johnny Duckworth restoration.
Could you tell me roughly how much working music box adds to the value?
I a bit concerned about the color wheel, although it appears to be an original "pie wheel" which I am told has not been reproduced, it does have some slight paint loss.
Does this hurt the overall value, I wouldnt want to fit a repro, I like it the way it is.

Many Thanks

[TheFatman]

Always carry a magnet in your pocket to check if the castings are original cast iron, or re-pro aluminum or brass castings. It will stick if cast iron... or not if something else.
Dave F

[SLOT DYNASTY]

clubconsoles:
Ask, and you shall receive! My honest opinion, is that it is a beautiful example, and is up to my standards. knowing that you purchased
the machine from Johnny, also tells me that it was done right. He knows Uprights well, and would not cut corners on a restoration, from
what I know. Even down to the Watts Nickle. The finish on the case appears excellent as well. The glass looks too good, and could be a
new replacement. The reason I say this is, there are several variations, in the chipped-glass shield design. Some don't have stars, and many,
you can't see the stars as well, because they are silver. Your stars are stark-white, and Dewey is facing to the right, and his uniform is dull.
I have seen Dewey facing the wrong way, only on one other style glass, but may have been a replacement pix as well. What happened a lot
with the original glasses, was not the silver chipping coming off, as much as the reverse paint. The paint can be touched up easily, but when
Dewey flaked off. the entire circle was scraped, and a photograph was taped to the inside of the glass. Many of the repro photos did not have
the best color, and looked faded. Some were even black & white. Yuk! For the record, 99 out off 100 Dewey glass photos, face to the left, and
all Dewey Face castings face to the right. There are many incorrect casting replacements on "Dewey" and "Chicago" machines. Especially ones
that were sold at many VCA auctions, because many people that slap these machines together for a quick sale, DO NOT know what is correct,
and what is not, and quite frankly don't care.
As for music, in todays market, it usually will add around $2,000 to the machine, if it's a replacement or add-on, and a little more, if it is a
totally original setup. Many music units have been added to machines that never came installed from the factory. An expert can tell the ones
that are new. As much of a purist as many of us are, there is nothing wrong with adding music, if that's what you want, but there should be a
price difference if it is not a totally original example. There is a long time collector in California, that was making both Mills & Caille units
many years ago. At that time, the Mills units were around $250 to $350, and the Caille units were more. These same music units were used in
many styles of boxed counter players. Therefore, the music unit itself was original, but the sound-box, bracketry, and levers were all expertly
reproduced. The Caille units were more expensive, because they were better quality, and not as easy to aquire.
As for your pie-wheel, it is ashame that it is flaking. Some wheels did more than others. I wonder if Johnny put a clearcoat on it, to keep it in
check? You might want to ask him. But you have to be careful what to use, as you could make the wheel worse. I restored color wheels for all
variations of Victorian Uprights, and Counter Wheels, for many years. I don't do them often now, as my hands are not as steady, and my beads
don't focus as well either. I also built two special shipping boxes, (for both sizes), to ship them both ways, so that they were well protected.
You could drive a car over them without harm. Someday, I may grace these pages with a few before & after pix of some of the wheels that I
have restored. If anyone cares, that is. There are even a few that I did from scratch. One of them can be seen on page 14, of "Collectors
Guide to Vintage Coin Machines" by Dick Bueschel. It is the Mortimer B. Mills "The Klondyke", of 1897. It was the only known example, and the
wheel was a homemade piece of crap, along with several homemade incorrect mechanism parts. It was a nightmare to complete, but well
worth the task. The only thing I had to go by with the wheel, was a small black & white pix of the machine, shown in an early Mills catalog.
So everything is as close as it can be, until another shows up that's all original. This is what is so much fun about this hobby.

[clubconsoles]

Hey SLOT DYANASTY!
Your input and knowledge sure is appreciated.
I had no idea that George Dewey could either face left or right on the etched glass.
I had not really noticed that in the picture Books, but now you mention it, yes all the Pictures have him facing left.
I do appear to have a repro glass, all the stars are reverse mirrored, not white!
I think mine is 1905 as I looked up the serials in one of the late, great Dick Bueschel's Books.
It plays really well and the music works flawlessly.
How do i know if Music was added at a later date, are the any tell tale signs?
it dosen't look like my wheel had a clear coat.
I, for one , would love to see the before and after shots of your restored wheels.
Again, many Thanks for being such a helpful Gentleman!!

Nigel