Repros/fakes/remanufactured stuff killing the hobby?

[Silent Salesman]

It does not seem Fakes are limited to Slots. Look at this Ebay auction that ended today. Item 151008978972

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILLIAM-MIACHAE ... 7675.l2557


Seller has an Advance Globe on a William Michael's machine. That ain't right. He then says

"The globe is and Original 'Football' style glass globe" How about it is an original globe for a different machine?

Perhaps the Seller did not know, but he has over 3,000 in feedback and seems to deal in the stuff.

[oldslotman]

It is getting harder to find virgin machines anymore. Seems like all have been tampered with in some way. Here in the midwest, like nebraska where laws don't allow slot machines, it's hard to come by machines. Can't buy from Ebay and some auctions because of the laws. There is some of the new stuff around but not a lot in the way of old stuff. Sometimes we just have to take what we can get if we want a machine or machines for the Man Cave. I still love the hunt.

[Marc Hess]

How about this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EARLY-CAST-IRON ... 7675.l2557

Experienced collectors know the Simpson A is correct with a distinct and desireable green/blue globe for which a premium is paid and not a common Columbus no. 8. When I saw this posting it just seemed subtly misleading to me and ticked me off.

Marc

[buzzojoe]

Ok. So what do people think about the guy (last name possibly Smith?) who reproduces the whirlwind and baseball trade stims from "the original toolind", and calls them "continuing production run" original machines?
I bought one from him (even though he's a liberal democrat HAHA), because I wanted a whirlwind for my office, but didn't want one $1,500.00 worth. Plus I knew what I was getting...

[SLOT DYNASTY]

Ok. So what do people think about the guy (last name possibly Smith?) who reproduces the whirlwind and baseball trade stims from "the original toolind", and calls them "continuing production run" original machines?
I bought one from him (even though he's a liberal democrat HAHA), because I wanted a whirlwind for my office, but didn't want one $1,500.00 worth. Plus I knew what I was getting...

Mr. Smith has never done the Whirlwind, or "Little Whirlwind", as it is known in the whirlball configuration, to my knowledge. He was making the "Whiz Ball" & "Base Ball" models from the original factory tooling and parts, which he
aquired from the Frantz factory, many years ago. So, what he was really doing, was 'continuing production, (so to speak), even though they are known as reproductions. The first ones he built, sold very quickly, and were labeled as
"REMANUFACTURED", at a price of around $235. He was not calling them Restored Originals, or anything else. He asked me shortly after the first ones were built, if he should put serial numbers on them, and I said, "most definately".
This way it would always be known that they were the later models. He then started stamping the numbers on the back edge of the wood base. I also mentioned stamping the number somewhere inside as well, mainly because there
is a chance someone would later sand the number off the wood, and repaint it, and therefore call it an original. What has been happening, not long after he started selling these 'Remanufactured' models, is that many times they are
resold, like on eBay, or live auctions, and are not labeled as such, leading the new buyer into thinking it is a restored original. I have seen a very large number of both models on eBay, being sold by persons that know exactly what
they are, and not stating in their descriptions. There are other suttle ways to tell these from the originals, besides whether it has a number or not, but most of the new buyers, are not aware of them. If these remanufactured models
are resold in the $250 to $350 range, that is not so bad. But when they hit the $600 to $700, and sometimes over a grand, (which several have), that's insanity! Even many originals don't command those prices. First of all, from my
records that have been kept since the mid 1970's, there are not that many Originals of these two models in collections. I have always said, "if you want to be sure of buying Original, buy it grubby, or know the honest reputation of the
seller of a Restored example". So, yes buzzojoe, I would not want one of these at $1,500 for my office either.

Not to be compaired with the above machines, are the rash of new 'Total Reproduction' copies from scratch, of the Rockola "Official Sweepstakes" that have been on the market for quite some time. Many have been sold on eBay, and
the VCA auctions, and I have NEVER witnessed ONE of them being labeled as a REPRODUCTION. This is Complete Fraud! Another example to watch out for, is the Mills "Wizard Fortune Teller". (Late model, with the aluminum front).
If there are 'non-serious collectors', that just want a fancy Repro machine for their 'Man Cave', and pay accordingly, that's fine. But don't Snooker our new uneducated people coming into the hobby with these Phoneys, and passing them
off as originals.

I am happy to see the amount of people that are now part of this Forum, which has been growing quite well in the past few months. Many whom contribute very informative information, and help the ones that are seeking information
on a collectable they have, or want to aquire. This is what this Forum is all about, and Kudo's to Dave for putting it out here for us. There are also the members that just monitor the Forum to see what we are chatting about, and
to hopefully learn something from it. Not to mention a few 'lookie-loos', that just watch for the 'Smut', and make a comment every-so-often. Kinda like the one that hammered on me for something I recently said, who hadn't had an entry
for 7 years, then one, 2 years ago. Oh well...........I'm over it!

[oldslotman]

I just got into the hobby a couple years ago at the ripe old age of 64 although I've owned a machine or two for over 30 years. Looked online and got some books a learned how to repair some machines. I have repaired a few machines for people in my area, Nebraska. It's hard sometimes to tell some people the machine that they thought was original is a reproduction or revamp. All the machines were Golden Nuggets. Their first words are, "How do you know?" I tell them that reproductions and revamps have been around for a long time. Even some of the reproductions look old. I tell them what they have and try to be as honest as possible with the info that I have. Most of them understand and take it for it's worth because they bought the machine to enjoy and not to resell.