Another Pace Kitty Question - How Rare?

[markymarkuk]

Sorry another Pace Kitty related question...

Just been reading an early copy of the Loose Change Magazine from late 70s, and it has an excellent Kitty article. In this article from Dave Mead (who I'm assuming knows what he's talking about) he says only about 1000 were made, from his knowledge there's less than 30 to 40 examples of this model, and even rarer is to find one with all it's original Kitty "bits" in place.

Does this still stand true today, and is it really that rare now?

Thanks

[mechanic]

Marky It's true Pace Kitty is a short run of only 1000 machines. If you figure a 10% survivor rate there should be no more than 100 or less left. Another machine that was a short run is the Jennings Cat and Witch with only 500 machines made. Serial no. 100000 - 100500. Jennings should have 50 or less of them surviving. I had no. 100024 in my collection and sold it. Bad move on my part.

[watlingboy]

I assume the 1000 Pace Kitty's manufactured comes from surviving serial numbers? You certainly can't call a Kitty rare. The word "rare" is usually reserved for machines where there is 12 or fewer surviving examples. It's hung on too many machines just to try to get more money for them. Anyone looking for a Kitty can certainly find one if you are persistant.

Watlingboy

[markymarkuk]

Rare is 12 or less... can't find any reference to that???
Your comment that a Kitty is not rare, one will come up if your persistent... well I could say that about any machine, but how persistent.. I've been a collector since 1979 and Kitty machines "complete " are NOT that common. I would say that a rare machine is one that is original, complete and does not appear for sale too often, as opposed to a Mills Hi Top or Sega slot. That's just my interpretation of RARE.
I was also going on what David Mead wrote in Loose Change magazine, and I think we can agree this guy knows his stuff when it comes to slot machines.

So I'd say Kitty is rare, so too are Roll-A-Top Bird of Paradise etc.. they don't appear every week for sale.
But your right, if I'm persistent (although I think the word should be patient), then ANY machine will eventually appear for sale, even if I have to wait 30 years!
just my opinion

[watlingboy]

This will be my final post on this, I'm not going to get involved in a pissing contest and you can respond to it however you wish. I think the article you are referring to was the 1979 copy of Loose Change magazine with the Kitty on the front. That article was written by Robert Geddes who was a collector who occasionally wrote books with Dan Mead, publisher of Loose Change magazine, and did articles for the magazine. David Mead was Dan's son and I think he is in mid 40's now and would have been a young teenager when that issue was written. In that article Robert also states that there were only two know Kittys in the state of California, certainly not the case now. California had only been legal 3 years when that article was written and machines that we thought were rare at the time, turned out not to be as the hobby matured. An example of that is the Watling Treasury, in the early days it was thought to be very rare and we now know it is not. Robert was a mathematician by profession and not an historian. He has good information in the magazine about calculating the pay out odds on certain machines such as the Futurity. Defining rarity is a semantics debate but I don't think any advanced collector will agree that a machine that has 50 to 100 or more surviving examples is rare. In case of the Bird of Paradise, perhaps hundreds have survived. There is one for sale on Ebay every day. Within that group there are rare examples such as the penny Bird. I know of 2 almost new out of the box Kitty's that exist, there may be more like that but that is a rare version of the Kitty. I have owned 6 Kittys over the years and have by no means bought all I have seen for sale or hunted exclusively for them. By your definition we have the really common machines, Segas, Hi Tops, etc and then every thing else is rare. Because you or I may not not have seen a lot of a certain machine over our collecting career, that alone doesn't make it rare. And I used the word I wanted, if you are patient, you sit and wait for something to come to you. If I were persistant, I would call dealers and other collectors and put the word out that I was looking for a Kitty and by networking, I'm sure I could come up with a Kitty for sale in a fairly short period of time. In my opinion, this would not be the case for a rare machine. In closing, I'm not sure why you posed the question to begin with since you already, it seems, made up your mind as to the definition of rare. I'm done.

Watlingboy

[markymarkuk]

Thank you for your history lesson, on the article and who wrote it, I stand corrected, but then I only had a brief read of said article from another collector, my comments on that article were from memory, I obviously just remembered the name Mead, the publisher.
I seem to have rattled your cage a little, but won't resort to using words like P****** contest, it was never a contest sir, just a view point. I do think you are condescending in your phrase "really common machines, Segas, Hi Tops, etc and then every thing else is rare", I was merely pointing out there are more of these sold than some of the models mentioned, I was not implying EVERYTHING else is rare.
From your number of posts on these forums I assume you are respected and well knowledgeable of slots, I am not, just a collector who enjoys mechanical gaming devices.

My original post was just an off the cuff comment after remembering the said article, and just asked if Kitty was rare, maybe it should read, less common, than the word rare!

Pace Kitty is in my personal opinion, a less common machine than certain others makes and models!

The End!

[Dave]

I am always really careful when I use the "R" word because everyone has their own definition.

I have owned a total of 3 Kittys throughout the years and I currently own two. They are one of my favorite machines.

You definitely don't see them show up very often. Once they end up in a collection they usually stay put for a very long time.

I know of three other Kittys but none of them are for sale.

Personally, I would define the Kitty as a very uncommon machine that is currently very high in demand. But that is just my view.